Topic: FAKE BJJ GYMS!!!! (Read 8932 times)

Jungle021 · « **Reply #15 on:** April 13, 2012, 10:31:24 PM »

Bro that is epic. I want to go in there so badly.

bigskymma · « **Reply #16 on:** April 14, 2012, 12:14:41 AM »

Asked to cross post this from MMA.TV:

I am going to post the information that I have dug up. I will include links to the information and explain how I cam across it.

First, I needed the name of the BB (FBB?) or the school. To find it I read the thread posted by OP over at florida fighters (http://floridafighter.com/index.php?topic=354.0) . After reading post 6 I googled for America Martial Arts Academy + Jacksonvill FL. This led me to two different websites for the company. First the "new" .com for America Martial arts:
http://www.americamartialarts.info/

Interesting notes on that site:
Claims to be NAGA accredited school (http://www.americamartialarts.info/combat_brazilian_jiu-jitsu - SEE GRAPHIC ON RIGHT)
Belted at least one person to Blue
(http://www.americamartialarts.info/school_fighters)
Site uses a mix of BJJ and what they call "combat" BJJ. Likely to avoid people like us.

This site included no reference to a head instructor or owner. For that we turn to what I think is an OLDER site. Found here:
http://americamartialartsacademy.weebly.com/index.html

Name of the owner is David Hartsook (Source: http://americamartialartsacademy.weebly.com/about-the-instructor.html).

reading this site it makes the usual BS claims. No BJJ claims here. A few references to jiu jitsu but not BJJ. There are claims of having multiple BB in arts like TKD, Ninjitsu, Kenpo. Does claim to have trained or train military special forces (Source - Id. or see above).

What I could find on Hartsook (Skimpy here - will dig up more)

First looks like there are others onto him. Look at his ratemybjj.com profile:
http://ratemybjjinstructor.com/index.php?instructor_detail&instructor_id=000636

Facebook:
http://www.facebook.com/people/David-Hartsook/100000154457942

Gracie Profile:
https://gracieuniversity.com/students.aspx?ctl00_PrimaryContent_RadGridBeltHoldersChangePage=4

Found a claim of BJJ - though it is a 3rd party site called USAMMA:
http://usamma.tripod.com/id35.html
DOES INCLUDE A PERSONAL E-MAIL.

More later.

kazeboom · « **Reply #17 on:** April 14, 2012, 01:11:14 AM »

Thanks for putting the info here. You did a search for a Dan Ortiz in the IL area. Only problem with that is that Master Dave said he was in G-ville before going to Brazil. Anything on the IL Ortiz/Ortez ever spending any time in G-ville?

bigskymma · « **Reply #18 on:** April 14, 2012, 01:25:10 AM »

Quote from: kazeboom on April 14, 2012, 01:11:14 AM

Thanks for putting the info here. You did a search for a Dan Ortiz in the IL area. Only problem with that is that Master Dave said he was in G-ville before going to Brazil. Anything on the IL Ortiz/Ortez ever spending any time in G-ville?

Fixed on MMA.TV. Poor reading comp/fact checking on my part. I WILL find this guy if he exists.

colintay · « **Reply #19 on:** April 14, 2012, 01:48:31 AM »

seriously if you big and smelly your gym ain't ready

ROUGHNECK · « **Reply #20 on:** April 14, 2012, 04:10:27 PM »

Ok so I looked at his website and that isn't his facility nor is that his student doing the high kick. The picture of the the kids are from a ATA. Another McDojo that takes parents and other potential suckers for their money. SMH!

kazeboom · « **Reply #21 on:** April 15, 2012, 02:57:23 AM »

Its only been a little over 24 hours since Chase put the thread about this up on UG and it already has over 4000 views.

ROUGHNECK · « **Reply #22 on:** April 16, 2012, 09:15:47 PM »

Ok boys and girls this is the issue..... We have video but we have to find out if it is legal to post without said parties knowing.

I won't leave you without anything though. I show up today and with my partner to video this thing. I meet up with MASTER DAVE and there was his student from the first time I stopped by. I asked how his fight went this weekend, no shit he won in 21 sec via KO. I seen the video. So kudos to that kid named Kenny.

So Master D gets a phone call and ducks out to a back room while Kenny is placed in charge to have me go though all the steaches and warmups. Then about 15 min later MD comes out and says ok we will go over all the mount trap and rolls again. This time I don't have to suffer under his stench and I worked with Kenny his student. He is a good kid trying to be as helpful as possible. I just wish he was taught right. The technique is all wrong.
example when taking the back you don't keep chest to back and hooks are not locked in. Instead you to a modified gable grip that is with thumbs laced between the web space and pointer finger. It was so awkward to deal with. Then you makes sure you hover over them and dive to a shoulder pulling them on you. I asked about learning the rear naked choke but MD said he doesn't show that but will show me the arm bar from S mount, along with S mount retention. The S mount he showed isn't REALLY the S mount it was more like a loose mount while person is shrimped to one side. Very silly guys!!!! but I smile and deal. then he shows me a Armbar just from that position. Legs are open no curling he did get the knees together part right. So I will give him that. Then he says after about 40min of warm up and drill that it is time to roll. So Kenny being the good student opens out more matts for us to roll on.

I am getting excited now. The problem is NOW I have to make it look like I don't know what I am doing. The personal challenge now is to get to that one position he taught and finish with that one armbar he showed because "that is all I have been taught." MD then asks me how long do I want to roll I say I don't know what do you normally do he said 3 min for beginners, what do you want. I said ok 3 min sounds good. I wanted to have time to roll with MD again and have that on video.

This point and time there boxing coach is in the room and talking with them and I now have to really play up the noob and not just wreck this poor kid. So we start and he tries as hard as he can just to get mounted and arm bared the same way over and over and over and OVER again. I can tell MD is getting pissed and the boxer guy and him are whispering to each other. At this point I am thanking MD for teaching me the armbar as I am tapping his student. My friend Kenni that came with me is observing this while I am rolling. I ask how long this goes and MD says just keep going so his guy gets tapped 3-4 more times before MD finely stop the clock. MD was getting so mad at Kenny telling him to turn into me and so on. To be honest he couldn't turn into me do to he was handcuffed for that armbar set up. I know if my student was getting crushed like that I would have rolled with the new guy to give him some challenge. But we now have multiple people in this little room and that would compromise his black belt status I am sure. I know him quitting after 30 sec of mounted with grapevines to a new guy!!!!! would have ruined his BJJ BB claim. Now I won't say anything about the striking aspect of what he teaches but I do know he knows Sh!t about the ground. This point in time MD is pissed an runs the clock out way longer than 3 min trying to give his poor student a chance to catch me. Weak guillotine attempt after another he was passed to far side mounted and armbar. I gave up so many other subs just to do this one over and over. Kenny had told me during the warm up he was a blue belt under MD. I am telling you folks that he is still White of White belt of technique and skill. It is not his fault he just doesn't know and I am truly sad for him. After MD finely stops the watch the boxer couch guy asks me if I did MMA before and I told him I just wrestled in high school about 14 plus years ago.

I had told the Boxing coach I had lots of surgeries and that slowed me down so I couldn't wrestle in forever. He said he has also torn his bicep. He tells me I did good and to keep up the hard work. At this point MD is across the room and looking pissed off. Kenni the guy I came with said he thinks he was more pissed at his student for loosing than at me. Anyways there is more but stay tuned for next time........

Kenni with one leg is going to roll with MD We will try and get his consent for the video so we can post.

as for now check back in frequently to see updates.

ROUGHNECK · « **Reply #23 on:** April 18, 2012, 08:27:22 PM »

Ok check it I got over a half hour of legit video out in the open no hiding bullshit. I will have the video posted here on Friday.

First thing is when I show up he starts saying it is my last day there. I told him I thought I had a week. Then he said no it was from Thursday to Wednesday and that I have to sign up for a year. I said I could bring cash then he said no cash just contract. Auto bill style!!! lol He said the other day we can pay cash. It is obvious that he doesn't want me there. I Invited my wife to come and watch my class so she could take video.

We go threw another bullshit 15 min of warm up with one of his students instruction me. Then we go over crap mount escapes again. This video will be up also. MD then says finish that and it is rolling time he says. Then he ducks out in the back. While we roll. He then has a few more students come. To roll me. He has a guy about 190 come and he is a very fit guy. MD comes out and say ok you roll with him. Over and over I tap this guy out while trying to look like a noob. Mount armbar mount armbar

I call MD out at the end and he says he doesn't roll anymore and his students make excuses for him at this time. I want to get this clear I am not clowning his students. They do not know he is a complete fraud. He kept throwing his biggest baddest dude at me to get subbed over and over. I think his arm is popped a couple good time do to not being able to tap or not wanting to tap. After I called Dave out I open up a little bit and dance on this dudes chest because I knew there was no chance MD would roll with me and I know he would not let me back after this without year long contract. They know I am not a beginner at this time and ask me how long I have been training. I told them 3 day with MASTER DAVE!!!.

At this point in time every time I go to tap him MD calls time. LOL very sad.

Stay tuned for Friday.

cankles · « **Reply #24 on:** April 19, 2012, 08:57:37 AM »

Man, Jax is almost too far away for me to clown this dude. I went to Daytons to out Chris Van Valkenburgh, but I really can't justify going that far. I still might, though.

Man, it pisses me off.

kazeboom · « **Reply #25 on:** April 19, 2012, 01:23:24 PM »

And roughneck also said that everytime MD's student (Odis) would get tapped, MD would send him back in non-stop. What kind of black belt instructor keeps sending his student in with the lion like a sacrificial lamb for something like this? It's because he's not a real BJJ black belt. Ollie finally had to stop on his own because his arm and shoulder were hurting. The guy was done way before that but out of respect for his instructor he kept on rolling. So props go out to his student Oscar for that! But how shameful for Master Dave Hartsook.

@ cankles Far but would be worth it in the end. What was the deal the Valkenburgh dude?

EDIT: corrected students name from Odis to Oscar

cankles · « **Reply #26 on:** April 19, 2012, 01:44:57 PM »

Google the name. There were threads on nhbgear.com and bullshido. It's far too entertaining to compress into one post. But, he was a guy in Daytona who tried to bs his way into teaching and succeeded (for a little while). I was with ATT at the time.

kazeboom · « **Reply #27 on:** April 19, 2012, 06:41:42 PM »

Quote from: cankles on April 19, 2012, 01:44:57 PM

Google the name. There were threads on nhbgear.com and bullshido. It's far too entertaining to compress into one post. But, he was a guy in Daytona who tried to bs his way into teaching and succeeded (for a little while). I was with ATT at the time.

OK

kazeboom · « **Reply #28 on:** April 19, 2012, 06:59:40 PM »

ATTENTION!!! Guys please let this be known, the purpose of this thread and mission is in no way meant to disparge, embarass, clown, or make fun in any way of the students that train at Master Dave Hartsooks school. His students are no different than the rest of us. They have a passion for BJJ and martial arts and only want to learn. It is not a students fault for getting duped by fake BB instructors. People trust that when they walk into a dojo they are being told truthful lineage information etc from the instructor/owner. Although Art did run thru these two guys , it is not a negative reflection on them or to embarrass them in any way on the internet, etc. Both the students Oscar and Kenny were cool as shit, are good guys as could be gathered from the extremely short time spent with them. Hopefully at some point they can get to real BJJ schools and advance their life long journey of BJJ or what ever their goals are. Again Kudos to both Oscar and Kenny, who never gave up and continued to do their best at the orders of their "Instructor" against Art.

EDIT: name correction to Oscar

cankles · « **Reply #29 on:** April 19, 2012, 08:40:28 PM »

Quote from: kazeboom on April 19, 2012, 06:41:42 PM

Quote from: cankles on April 19, 2012, 01:44:57 PM
Google the name. There were threads on nhbgear.com and bullshido. It's far too entertaining to compress into one post. But, he was a guy in Daytona who tried to bs his way into teaching and succeeded (for a little while). I was with ATT at the time.

OK

Let me know what you find, or if you need me to post links. This guy was a real character!

And I agree about not clowning the students. The "instructor" on the other hand...

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